Guest Editorial: Brock Lesnar and his MMA future
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- May
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The first time I wrote a blog about Brock Lesnar, I admitted to being a big pro wrestling fan. I have followed pro wrestling since the age of 5. When I was 14, I discovered a newsletter written by a guy named Mark “CJDark” Roth.
Mark “CJDark” Roth has been covering the world of professional wrestling for a couple decades (give or take a year or two here and there). He began writing for established online wrestling news services in the mid 90’s and worked his way up to developing his own brand in this respect (L.E.W.D. – Legendary Extreme Wrestling Digest) – myspace.com/inlewd if you want to visit the myspace page for the newsletter or e-mail CJDark at ycjdark@yahoo.com and ask for him to subscribe you to the newsletter, if you are interested.
Mark and I have gone back and forth about Bock Lesnar,Dana White, and promotion, so I have asked him to write a guest editorial for my blog. Check it out below:
I admit I don’t follow Mixed Martial Arts as much as the frequent MMA fan does. In fact, as of a few months ago if someone said Kimbo Slice to me I would have thought incorrectly that it was some new pop artist or hip hopster that was making an impact in the music world. Boy would have been wrong. What I have learned about Mr. Slice is that he is pretty much (so far) the rise of the equivalent to the Japananese version of Bob Sapp, when Sapp was a dominant fighter with a great charismatic drawing ability behind him. I believe Kimbo Slice could not only be that greatest MMA fighter of his era, if he doesn’t allow himself to turn in to the hyped equivalent of Mike Tyson, a guy who bought into his hype so much that he stops thinking he has to train to beat cream puffs like “Buster” James Douglas. If Kimbo wanted to sustain a professional fighting career for 10, 15 or 20 years he could always make the smooth transition in to the world of pro wrestling. Former MMA stand outs like Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn have taken that route. See, I am a pro wrestling columnist and have been for a few decades (give or take a year or two). I know what pro wrestling is all about and have studied pro wrestling in its ugliest form and in its coolest form. Some hate the world of pro wrestling based around the premise that it is two grown men rolling around on a mat in spandex trunks and consider it to be quite ‘homo erotic’. But the art of professional wrestling when promoted correctly isn’t much like the reality of Mixed Martial Arts with one huge difference. Pro Wrestling is pre-determined and that gives the promoters, like Vince McMahon Jr., the ability to manipulate their audience and prolong their superstars’ dominant winning patterns 100% of the time.
So if Vince McMahon Jr. doesn’t want one of his most charismatic superstars to lose his next big tv match or ppv match, then the wrestler doesn’t lose and he remains dominant. If done and promoted correctly, pro wrestling can and does appear to be an actual legit fight, brawl or wrestling match. The problem is most pro wrestling promoters, including Vince McMahon Jr., do not promote pro wrestling as an actual legit sport these days and more or less have driven good fight fans away from pro wrestling circles and into the awaiting arms of someone like Dana White, a fight promoter who has an incredible vision which is slightly misguided. Dana White is the Vince McMahon Jr. of the MMA world in every way and the comparisons between Vince McMahon Jr. & Dana White have to be made. Dane White had a vision of taking MMA to grand levels and so far he has proven to each and every MMA fan that his vision was a gamble that was worth taking. White has made millions and millions of dollars by marketing UFC and has created different television platforms based around his UFC Empire. White has even gobbled up other MMA organizations with the intent to gobble up their top talent and increase his profits (something Vince McMahon Jr. has been known to do as well). No doubt Vince McMahon Jr. could learn quite a bit from Dana White, in the sense of promoting his product more like a sport and less like a cartoon or soap opera for men. But Dana White could learn a lot from Vince McMahon Jr. as well.
Take Brock Lesnar’s UFC career, for instance. Lesnar was a great amateur wrestler and anyone that knows anything about Brock knows that he can WRESTLE with the best of them and pretty much dominate anyone within the wrestling world. If Lesnar was to continue with his professional wrestling career with any organization in the world and, for whatever reason, decided he wasn’t going to “lay down” (lose the match as scheduled) then he could pretty much “shoot” (fight for real) and win the match with his legit amateur wrestling abilities. Lesnar is also an amazingly strong human being and has the ability to over power most anyone he is in the ring with. Couple his strength with his amazing wrestling skills and he is a very scary individual to face in a legit fighting competition. This doesn’t necessarily mean that Lesnar can go from pro wrestling circles in to the MMA world and instantly become a dominant fighter. Lesnar has to put in the hard hours of training to learn new techniques and methods to defend himself against the different fighting styles that exist around the globe. But what Brock brought to the UFC table from day one was marketability. Marketability based around his marquee pro wrestling name value and the intrigue of him attempting to start a new fighting career. Brock brought a buzz to the UFC product that had seemingly begun to vanish over night and provided Dana White with a direction he could have taken UFC in that would have (dear I say) revolutionized the MMA world.
Dana White has been hell bent on not bringing in PRO WRESTLERS to UFC because he has said numerous times that WWE & TNA & all wrestling organizations are “fake fighting” and UFC and MMA is “real fighting”. With that in mind and Brock Lesnar being from the wrestling world the natural thing for White to do is to allow his own agenda and ego to over ride good business sense and create a roadblock for Lesnar to do anything worthwhile during his MMA career. White pretty much, in my opinion, doesn’t want Lesnar to win and doesn’t want Lesnar to have a snowballs chance in hell of becoming a marquee-fighting machine with UFC. If Lesnar was to do that then by virtue of perceptions he may prove Dana White’s concepts incorrect. Now all wrestling fans know the same has been true with Vince McMahon Jr. Vince McMahon Jr. has had the ability to acquire top talent from all walks of fighting competitions and generally speaking Vince never allows another fighting competition to look better or superior then his WWE product. I’m authoring this column to paint the picture that the reality of doing business in this fashion is insane, especially if you have a once in a lifetime talent like Brock Lesnar that comes along. I have no hatred for Brock but do not see eye to eye with the way he has handled his fighting career and think he has made quite a few mistakes during his fighting career and frankly think he handled himself wrong when he gave notice (quit) the WWE. But he is what he is and what he is and happens to be one of the most dynamic characters in the fighting world. Lesnar can be the greatest of all time if he trains long enough and he could make Dana White a billionaire along the way. I know Brock Lesnar could be to UFC what Hulk Hogan (Terry Bollea) was to Vince McMahon’s vision of UFC.
Brock Lesnar, if promoted correctly and protected until he was cultivated in to a UFC fighting machine, could dominate UFC like no one else ever has. But the problem is Dana White has seemingly dropped the ball with Lesnar’s UFC career as he has ‘thrown him to the wolves’ immediately. I have been told that Lesnar is calling out BIG NAME UFC fighters and White is only giving him what he wants, I disagree. White owns Lesnar. White calls the shots. White should be putting Lesnar in fights that he knows Lesnar can win, so that when he eventually becomes a dominant fighter like “Iron” Mike Tyson initially was then he will have a strong track record to be marketed as one of the best UFC attractions of all time. Now don’t think I am off base by saying White ought to manipulate his company to give Lesnar easy wins because like it or not the fact is pro boxing has historically done this to cultivate fighting legends, i.e. Tyson. Tyson was fed talent not as good as he was but that had name value with the boxing world and it allowed him to dominate and dominate like no one ever has dominated. What that was, in my opinion, was pro boxing promoters becoming like traditional pro wrestling promoters. If I was in control of Lesnar’s fighting career ,like White is, the natural thing to do is run a very traditional pro wrestling angle. Lesnar should have made his UFC debut by doing a standard pro wrestling promo in front of the UFC audience (even if he was a heel in that debut). Lesnar should have told White and all of UFC that they were on notice and he was coming to prove that pro wrestlers are superior fighters to MMA fighters and he should have called out the biggest UFC name of them all, maybe even got in that persons face and shoved them (Tyson shoving Steve Austin on RAW kicked started a financial windfall for Vince McMahon one year by the way).
Once that angle was done. Lesnar would be treated like an outsider. He wouldn’t be with UFC but would be a rebel that was trying to get a fight with UFC. After a few media appearances, which would have been part of the deal through Lesnar doing promotional stops with traditional MMA fighting shows that report on the industry (if any exist?). He would continually call out White, but here’s the kicker. White would simply go on about his business as usual and ignore Lesnar existed. Then at the right moment when someone asks a subtle question to White about Lesnar, White finally goes “off” on Lesnar and pro wrestlers. White then gives Lesnar a contract to fight in UFC. He is still positioned as an outsider and the beauty of this is that even if Lesnar wants big stars to fight he fights lessor known stars to start off (that he can beat easily). This would be manipulated on purpose with the premise being that a strong Brock Lesnar remains a strong drawing card down the road. Lesnar would (in my opinion) eventually win over the MMA audience when he continually wins fights and kicks ass. Think of how Bill Goldberg went from fighting preliminary guys in WCW to eventually beating a bigger star each week when WCW was fabricating his winning streak to promote him as the most dominant pro wrestler of his era (and some think of all time). The same could be done with MMA – and it would not have to be a pre determined fight to get it done. If you don’t think pro fights are manipulated by promoters in all walks of pro fighting competitions then you are crazy.
(Note: Again I am not a MMA fan and am not an MMA guru and know limited information about MMA. What I know is pro wrestling and how marketing pro wrestlers works and how it can be used in other walks of life)
This entry was posted
on Friday, May 30th, 2008 at 1:18 pm by Larry Vollmer.
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I completely disagree with you. Lesnar came in, wanting to fight the best. Your saying that he should have been “protected” and given fights “that he could win”. This is MMA. REAL FIGHTING you retard, not WWE or TNA. Why in god’s name would you expect that White would “Manipulate” anything to Lesnar’s advantage? Understand that Lesnar coming into the UFC in the first place is pissing most mma fans off, just because of his name in the WWE. The WWE IS pretend fighting, so for Lesnar to make the transition to the UFC, he’s going to HAVE to fight the best. If he can’t beat them, well then he doesn’t deserve to be in the UFC. If he can train and get there by earning his victories over top competion, then the MMA fans will embrace him. Try to manipulate anything and the fans will leave in droves. Good business sense my ass, you have no clue what you’re talking about. Stick to covering pro wrestling.
I think that the angle could and would work if done. If fans suspected, yes they would be pissed. He won’t need it though. He’ll prove himself with time. Brock is a phenom. You don’t understand the absolute power and quickness in a guy his size. He already has the dedication. If he becomes anywhere near the BJJ practintioner he is with wrestling. He will be nearly unstoppable. Anyone can get caught, but he has a neck on him. He did do a moonsault and land on his head. I have news for anyone in the MMA world. Those wrestling rings don’t have that much give. He can pass gaurd at will. If he learns leg submissions so that he doesn’t get caught again. He absolutely will dominate the MMA heavyweight division in time. There is not a current heavyweight that could touch him. Fedor would have his hands full. Now this is based on if he learns the submission game. I’m pretty sure he will!! He’s a “rookie” to MMA and he’s taking on anyone. That in itself is impressive. He also has hands the size of most guys heads, and he can throw a punch. Any Questions?? I’ve been a fan of wrestling for most of my life. But, I’ve studied many martial arts and wrestle myself. I admittingly don’t find any interest in the wrestling industry right now. None of the matchups are new, it’s boring. I watch any MMA currently. I’m interested in the new Affliction banned event coming up. Any comments on that. I do think there putting alittle to much money into it to start. We’ll see. Brock takes Herring in 2nd.
This is to Mr. Havoc.
What I am telling you (not saying) is that Dana White in Brock Lesnar has a man that could be ten times the drawing card of Kimbo Slice is he was introduced properly. What I am telling you (not saying) is that Brock was not ready to fight in UFC (as Kimbo wasn’t in the maine event of the EliteXC show).
Of the two promoters, promotions one UNDERSTOOD the value of their fighter in his debut televised fight and tried everything within their power to make certain he wasn’t compromised. The other promotion (UFC) didn’t.
Now are you going to argue with me that Kimbo Slice’s fight against Thompson was “pretend?”. Certainly it wasn’t. But it was a fight that was made with the understanding that Thompson could be beat by a fighter that was not as skilled as the most skilled of fighters. It was a fight that Slice should have won quickly. Slice just did not attack the right weaknesses (ear) of Thompson in round 1 and got put in to a ground and pound type situation that proved he has a long way to go before he is a well rounded fighting machine. In fact, If Slice had been in the match against someone better then Thompson – he probably loses the match. And don’t think the promoters did not arrange for him to fight in a match where he should have never been compromised.
Brock could have been treated the same way by White. And another thing – you have to be kidding me by trying to play the “UFC IS REAL” and “Pro wrestling is pretend” b.s. If you think any competitive fighting sport is not manipulated to make money from time to time, then you are not Mr. Havoc any longer, you’ve just become Mr. Potato Head.
All fighting genre’s are manipulated by the promoter so he can make more money for themselves. Don King did this for decades in boxing and everyon knew he did it. There was even a time when he was representing all of the fighters involved in his fights and was winning from both ends. Oh, wait, Doesn’t Dana White control 100% of the fighters that fight in UFC? Doesn’t he win even if the guy he wants to win doesn’t win? Doesn’t he have the ability to make sure he undermatches or overmatches here and there? Don’t you think he hasn’t done this already to a certain extent? Give me a break.
I am telling you another thing – you might hate the pro wrestling world. But if there ever came a time when WWE & Vince McMahon began co-promoting with Dana White & UFC then you’d be on your knee’s kissing the smorgasboard known as VKM’s ass. I hate it when these MMA types get so sactiomonious thinking that UFC is the end all and do all of competitive fighting sports when the reality is it isn’t even all that.
Tank Abbott, correct me if I am wrong, was in UFC. Are you going to pretend that he was “THE BEST”? LOL. You stated that “only the best” deserve to be in UFC. By the way, Mr. Abbott wasn’t even a good “pretend fighter”.
And my point wasn’t that MMA fans needed to embrace Lesnar, I did not write the column with the suggestion that MMA fans should do anything. My entire point was that there comes a time when you know you have a money making machine in your midst and you have to decide whether to embrace that and make sure you can milk it for all it is worth, or make the wrong choice and screw it so the milk runs dry before you get half a glass of it.
And if a promoter manipulated MMA fights, you wouldn’t be able to tell it was happening. I.E. You simply overmatch, run reality based pro wrestling angles and make the audience believe in something that doesn’t really exist. Pro boxing has even begun to run pro wrestling angles to set up big time fights and guess what? They work. Because a good pro wrestling angle doesn’t give itself awsay to the audience as being manipulated. If Dana White told one of his fighters to slap his scheduled opponent at a press conference in front of the entire world and insult him and call him out right then and there.. you’d believe it was legit. And nine times out of ten, it wasn’t.
If I was talking about something I didn’t know anything about then I would shut up. I don’t know the in’s and out’s about the MMA business when it comes to being a fan and following the in ring action. But the MMA business as a business relating to the pro wrestling business as a business IS NOT DIFFERENT. Both need to utilize the same business sense and practices to market their direction. One just has less room to screw up (MMA) then pro wrestling. In pro wrestling, I said this before and let me say it again, nothing is out of control of the promoter or promotion (within reason, obviously injuries and accidents are) when it comes to a fight or the next big fight. In MMA it is slightly a different beast. They have little control over the product and fighters once they have been arranged. I mean you can manipulate a fight or situation in favor of one of your stars (drawing cards) and intend for them to win but in a shoot fight, all bets are off after the fight begins. Nine times out of ten an overmatched fighter won’t rise to the occasion to upset the MMA fighter he is facing. Sometimes it happens. But in MMA if the guy you did not plan on hyping wins then you just go in a new direction. The problem happens to be in MMA sometimes non charismatic fighters are tbe best fighters in the world and it is hard to get behind them in a marketing perspective to drive the business, that never really happens in pro wrestling.
See you can be the greatest pure pro wrestler of all time and have no marketing potential and you aren’t going to overcome your flaws (ask Dan Severn about that one). In MMA this isn’t the case as anyone that is as entertaining a ball of lint can win the championship if they are skilled enough to do it. But that won’t put asses in the seats. And if you disagree with this, then you are certainly the one with no clue.
To Smoothrob.
Here’s the biggest problem for MMA. You have UFC, which has been running shows the longest of all the groups. Has drawn the most money of all the groups. Has put on the best fights of all the groups and has largely been promoting the best fighters in the entire genre. It is run by a guy that has not been able to throw the decisive KNOCK OUT punch or combination of punches or put a choke hold on to submit the competition. By that I mean, UFC is some circles is now considered second to EliteXC by virtue of EliteXC beating UFC to the punch and securing a prime time Network television tv package that saw it debut with a monster rating that will springboard it to the forefront of the genre.
YEAH, I UNDERSTAND HARDCORE followers of MMA feel ripped off at EliteXC and don’t back it. I GET THAT. But that doesn’t matter. Just like when WWE did the same thing in the 80’s a lot of pure wrestling fans did not accept WWE as the leader of the genre, but it was. EliteXC right now by virtue of the tv rating is the leader. Now I understand a lot of people are going to say, wait a second it is not about tv ratings, it is about drawing money. All of that changed when all of these new groups began popping up left and right and out of the woodworks.
NBC will have a prime time show soon, White better hope he is in the running for that spot. And it will become a ratings war type deal with the top rated show being perceived as the best and the biggest. Spike Tv might start thinking about UFC in terms of EliteXC and asking why it can’t draw the same ratings as EliteXC has and that is death to UFC.
It happened in wrestling and it will happen with MMA. Once the ratings begin to become more important to the health of the company then actually making money, selling tickets or PPV’s then the business will have to evolve and become more grounded in promoting the next big free tv show then hyping the next major PPV outlet. And with all of the new splinter groups forming and getting tv time it is going to be very difficult to market and promtoe and sell future PPV’s. I mean, if someone can see a quality fight on free tv, then why order a PPV for 20-30-40-50 bucks?
Now for our ‘Hunk’ section. ,